Tuesday, August 28, 2007

Dirty thoughts about God

OK, so while we're going this direction, let's talk about "cultivating a deep love for God" ... if you know what I mean.

Assuming that none of my female readers are going to share their secret sexual thoughts about God and Jesus, let's start with the famous mystic Teresa of Avila.

It pleased our Lord that I should see the following vision a number of times. I saw an angel near me, on the left side, in bodily form. This I am not wont to see, save very rarely.... In this vision it pleased the Lord that I should see it thus. He was not tall, but short, marvellously beautiful, with a face which shone as though he were one of the highest of the angels, who seem to be all of fire: they must be those whom we call Seraphim.... I saw in his hands a long golden spear, and at the point of the iron there seemed to be a little fire. This I thought that he thrust several times into my heart, and that it penetrated to my entrails. When he drew out the spear he seemed to be drawing them with it, leaving me all on fire with a wondrous love for God. The pain was so great that it caused me to utter several moans; and yet so exceeding sweet is this greatest of pains that it is impossible to desire to be rid of it, or for the soul to be content with less than God. (Peers, 197)
Cough cough.

Cough.

So far as I can tell, this is about par for the course with Saint Teresa. She's really, really, really hot on God.

If you know what I mean.

And I have this sneaking suspicion that she's not the only one.

Let's begin by observing that most human beings are interested in sex. Sexual hardware is buried pretty deep in our brains, and influences us in all sorts of bizarre ways. Take, for example, this image from a Nielsen eyetracking study:

Image

Although both men and women look at the image of George Brett when directed to find out information about his sport and position, men tend to focus on private anatomy as well as the face. For the women, the face is the only place they viewed.

Coyne adds that this difference doesn’t just occur with images of people. Men tend to fixate more on areas of private anatomy on animals as well, as evidenced when users were directed to browse the American Kennel Club site.


And even if you hadn't noticed that people are interested in sex, sexuality and sexual anatomy, advertisers have noticed: On the way home from Arkansas today, I tried to count all the billboards that used some sexualized image to sell a product. And even if you don't count each breast separately, the number is ridiculously high.

SPOILER ALERT: You may not be able to sing church songs the same way after reading the next few paragraphs.

Next, let's consider the sexy lyrics of modern praise and worship music:

All to Jesus, I surrender;

All to Him I freely give;
I will ever love and trust Him,
In His presence daily live.


All to Jesus I surrender;
Humbly at His feet I bow,
Worldly pleasures all forsaken;
Take me, Jesus, take me now.


All to Jesus, I surrender;
Make me, Savior, wholly Thine;
Let me feel the Holy Spirit,
Truly know that Thou art mine.


All to Jesus, I surrender;
Lord, I give myself to Thee;
Fill me with Thy love and power;
Let Thy blessing fall on me.


All to Jesus I surrender;
Now I feel the sacred flame.
O the joy of full salvation!
Glory, glory, to His Name!


Yes, I think "All to Jesus I Surrender" is my favorite source of questionable lyrics, but other examples abound. Please share your own.


Now my guess is that these lyrics aren't the result of someone's explicit sexual thoughts about God or Jesus, but I find it hard to believe that the ecstatic, sexualized language of these praise songs is significantly different than Saint Teresa's visions. If nothing else, both use sexually charged language because it's the writer's best chance at communicating the ecstacy of the experience of God.

So given that people bring their sexuality to their experience of God, let's observe that almost all of the God-language and God-imagery used in evangelical and fundamentalist Christian churches is masculine. God is always referred to using the male pronoun "he". God is often addressed as "father". Jesus (God incarnate) is male, and is often portrayed as a healthy young man in a snappy white tunic with a snappy blue sash. The holy spirit shows up and gets Mary pregnant.

My suspicion, then, is that women and men both have a sexual component to their understanding of God, and that this component significantly influences how they relate to God. The straight man and the gay man will have attitudes and understandings of God that are flavored by all sorts of sexual and father-figure issues. The straight woman and lesbian woman will bring similar baggage.

And so I have all these questions about how much this sexual component influences a person's perception of the divine. Are men less attracted to women who are attracted to God? (A recent study summary I read suggested that male attraction to a female decreases if another male finds the female attractive.) Are men less involved in church because it's perceived to be the territory of another male, or because they have no way to relate sexually to God? Is temple prostitution the inevitable byproduct of goddess-worship, and if so is there a mirrored problem for god-worship? Is sexual attraction to God generally good, or generally harmful? And can we talk about this, or is it too offensive?

Yeah, it's probably too offensive.

Cough.

55 comments:

Matthew said...

Proposition: If the problem with female deities is temple prostitution, the corresponding problem with male deities is religiously justified violence.

Emerging From The Fire said...

Cough.

Wow.

Not sure what to say.

(Gathering thoughts, gathering thoughts.)

This is the best post on religion I think I have ever read, simply because it is almost too offensive ... so no one talks about it ... yet an interesting question.

The imagery of sex has long been used to describe the ecstasy of union with God.

Just take any one of John Donne's famous poems, like these excerpts:

"But am betrothed unto your enemy.
Divorce me, untie or break that knot again;
Take me to you, imprison me, for I,
Except you enthrall me, never shall be free,
Nor even chaste, except you ravish me."

Hmm.

And most of the world's major religions have had at least one breakoff group that touted rampant sex as a way to enlightenment (including Christianity).

Beyond this, I have to gather my thoughts to say something coherent.

Matthew said...

Hi, Em.

Thanks for the massive compliment. As I re-read the post, I'm thinking about yanking it. I'm afraid it's so silly that it obscures my point, which I think is important.

Oh well, I guess it'll turn out fine. You guys seem to be pretty good at catching the point apart from the fluff.

scoots said...

I don't think it's offensive, I just don't know what I think about it.

In my personal experience, most of my emotion toward God and most of my emotion toward women has been fickle and has often seemed more a result of manipulation or unrealistic ideals than genuine relationship.

That's kind of scary for me to admit, on both counts, but in any event it makes me wonder how the two are related. Sex isn't just about ecstasy--it's also closely related to intimacy and trust, so we might ask how we experience those with God. Lack of intimacy with God could be a result of an unwillingness to trust God, or it could be a result of God appearing not to respond. Deep intimacy or trust could be a result of having experienced God as faithful.

If a key component of sex is a desire to be as close to another person as possible, then it would make sense that prayer, especially mystical prayer, would have a lot in common with sex. It's apparently as close as any of us can get to God.

Connor said...

"I'm afraid it's so silly that it obscures my point, which I think is important."

Reminds me of an essay by Hunter S Thompson about the Super Bowl. A long insane and wild article that was just trying to expose the absurdity of sports obsession in the US. (that is my take, but who knows what that insane hoodlum was writing about) I'm sure he could have been direct but the more humorous route was much more convincing.

Richard Beck said...

Matthew,
Great post!

As you suggest, I have heard that one of the main reasons that men do have trouble with Christianity is that in our metaphorical understandings of the God-relationship we are always cast as either woman (e.g., the Bride) or child. Both are fairly passive and physically weak.

I think this is why we see in Promise Keepers and Wild at Heart men trying to capture masculine metaphors for the faith journey (e.g., I'm a warrior for God). Which is interesting given you first comment here: The male metaphors are more violent.

Matthew said...

@Scoots:
"it would make sense that prayer, especially mystical prayer, would have a lot in common with sex. It's apparently as close as any of us can get to God."

A bold statement. Got any more arguments to back it up?

BTW, all that "if you know what i mean" stuff was just for you.

@Connor:
Link us!

@Richard:
Wild at Heart woo HOO!

Any interesting psychology of religion stuff for us to read?

roxanne said...

Wow. I don't think this offensive at all. For one I don't think that having sexual thoughts are evil or dirty. It seems that somewhere along the way we have connected sex as something dirty and sinful. Wasn't it God who created it? Didn't God command Adam and Eve to multiply and be fruitful. In other words didn't God tell Adam and Eve to have lots and lots of sex?

For me, and I am only speaking for myself and not for other women here, but for me I feel closest to God when I am having sex with my husband. I seem to have intimate moments with God when I am running, singing in the shower, reading a good book or watching a good movie, and making love. I don't feel so intimate with God on Sunday mornings or doing dishes.

This blog is very interesting and it seems that there needs to be more study here. But for some reason I was glad to read this. I know that in Greek mythology it wasn't uncommon for the gods to come down and have intercourse with beautiful women on the earth. It also brings up the Bible verse in Genesis chapter 6 about the Nephilim. I always wondered about that?

Anyway, I don't think it is uncommon to have thoughts like Teresa. I wouldn't call it "dirty" thoughts though. Intimacy with God is something we should all strive for. I mean after all, Jesus is every womans dream come true. He is strong yet gentle, he is loving but isn't passive, he is a protector, a provider, and above all else, he is a passionate lover.
See, before I was converted and baptized, I read the book of revelation, I know, not the best place to start a bible study. But I read about the bride of Christ, and I knew that this bride would not be me because I was unpure, I was not a virgin, and I knew that Jesus would marry a virgin. But when I read it, I wanted it to be me. I wanted to be the bride of Christ. Who wouldn't want to marry a man like that? So to my surprise, on my wedding day, while I was in the baptistry, the preacher explained that there were two weddings that day, because when we are baptized into Christ we are the bride of Christ. So you can imagine my excitement.
So as a woman I understand what Teresa was saying. And I think, Matthew, you asked something like, if men are attracted to women who are attracted to God. Again I am only speaking for myself, that I find a man attracted to God and having the characteristics of Christ extremely attractive. Again, I don't think it is dirty to think about sex. Although we are warned not to commit adultery and lust. But I don't think we should go to the other end of the spectrum and never think about sex. In my opinion it is a natural thing that God created in us. It is only natrual to find God attractive and to look at him in those ways. Whether it is right or wrong, I don't know. But isn't it true that most boys think about having sex with their mothers at one point? Seems only natural, but eventually they outgrow it. So maybe our intimacy with God changes as we grow up. But I definately would not call it dirty thoughts.

shane said...

If there was an image of God, and the image had a crotch, I would probably stare at it a lot during church.

Emerging From The Fire said...

OK. After Roxanne's commnet, I am really thinking (*that hurts*).

I am pretty comfortable with the sexual imagery describing my experiences with God and Jesus. It makes sense to me. Seems true to me.

God penetrating me, entering me, filling me up, leaving something behind, growing in me. It is much like a sexual experience and having a child, I suppose.

But, I wonder how straight men feel about such imagery. When you see God as male, and you have never experienced sex from the female perspective, this must be harder to imagine ...

Richard Beck said...

Matthew,
I know of no literature on the subject. But it is just dying to be formally looked into. I'd love to talk about what a potential study might look at. A quick study could easily been done with ACU students. Spin me some ideas and I'll see if I can gather the data. It might be publishable if well concieved.

Paul said...

I guess Freud would have been interested in speaking with St. Teresa about her remarks there...

This is probably a complicated topic. I'm thinking that, for example, on the one hand there's sexually charged religion, so to speak. If the Christ had been a good looking young woman, I can't imagine the chaos...

On the other hand, there are linguistic and metaphorical links between sex and religious experience - your "surrender" example's a good one here.

Matthew said...

@Richard:

Thanks, I'll talk to cheryl about what "spin me some ideas" entails.

@Paul:

I'm thinking that the linguistic/metaphorical links are pretty significant, though. The language is close enough that it's bound to elicit many of the same emotions and sexual thoughts.

Aric Clark said...

Fine post here.

Gay theology has been pointing out quite loudly the sexualized language of the church in recent years. Especially because the church is such a male dominated institution and yet the imagery for God is always masculine and the church feminine. It does say some very interesting things about all those saintly bishop-poets and scholars in the middle-ages.

The Old Testament is ripe with sexual imagery as well. Aside from Song of Solomon and all the Israel-God language... there are numerous places where God exclaims in apparent response to a slight against his power - "Is God's 'arm' short/weak?" (numbers 11:23 for example). The word in Hebrew is "yod" which CAN mean hand, but literally means member and is most often slang for genitalia. So God is literally saying "Is my wang too short!"

Classic.

Matthew said...

Hi, Aric.

Now that you've provided me with such a fascinating tidbit about the yod of God, I have no choice but to add you to my feed reader.

And I did notice that you've listed me as a "theology" blog, which may be a little overgenerous. Thanks, though.

shane said...

aric said, "he word in Hebrew is "yod" which CAN mean hand, but literally means member and is most often slang for genitalia. So God is literally saying "Is my wang too short!"

If you're right than Genesis 38:28 has a whole new meaning!

I'll try not to go too Hebrew nerd here. In the OT 'foot' (see reference to Ruth and the threshing floor, Isaiah 6, Noah drunk in his tent, etc. . .) is a polite term for penis, although in some spots a foot really is a foot. Hand (as you referenced here) is most appropriately considered a reference to the extension of power or authority of God. While the penis is often used as a source of power in ancient near-eastern mythology, I just don't see it in the OT.

Enjoyed your blog, glad to have you around.

Rick said...

Excuse me but I was unable to find an email address and wanted you to know just how much I like this piece.

The gracious and generous Almighty does work in mysterious ways. As a blogger at Jesus was a Liberal, my total hits does not yet achieve the minimum number of daily readers at OpEd News. Recently my articles at OpEd News have earned top story/headline status at Google News, the industry standard. As editor of spirituality and politics at OpEd News, I would like to share the same opportunity with you by inviting you to submit timely and articulately accessible articles available for online viewing to around 30,000 or more readers a day at OpEd with over a million readers a month. Around 400,000 of them are new readers. Millions more can see your headline at Google News. As the Creator has freely shared with me, if you like I will do my best to help your articles be widely read and earn top rankings at Google News. Relax. This isn't some scheme to get your money. This is a plan to get progressive spiritual voices widely read and spread.

We have a wonderful opportunity at OpEd news to establish a vibrant voice of progressive spirituality through the practice of writing. OpEd offers opportunities for multi-media, including audio and video. You will be able to provide biographical information and a link to your website. Feel free to also publish your piece at your blog.

As an editor, I believe that you have something to say and that you can say it well. I'm looking for pieces that are substantiated with more than pride and prejudice. While reason most certainly matters, compassion is crucial. Evidence is essential. Humor helps. Perspective is always precious. As an editor, I want us to bring some genuine loving/healing/help instead of the already rampant hate and venting too easily found in the media.

My prayer is that you bring a lot with your writing and actions. You can help make real on earth as in heaven. Let's no longer complain about not having a voice in the media. Indeed, my friends, we have been granted the opportunity to be a major voice in the media, at least on the internet. May we speak progressive voices of peace, love and justice loud and clear from the rooftops and out in the daylight.

I gratefully await your response,


Richard Mathis

Aric Clark said...

Shane,

always great to have Hebrew nerds around. For my interpretation of Numbers 11:23 (and other similar passages) I am following Dr. Robert Coote of San Francisco Theological Seminary who is far far more learned than I. He didn't indicate that "Yod" was always to be interpreted this way, but that it was a common usage of the word, and was corroborated by a similar turn of phrase in Babylonian writing of the time.

You are of course right that it has to do with power. Even if God is referring to his genitalia here - he is doing so as a response to a slight against his power. He is in other words, saying "my junk is bigger than yours!"

It could just be an idiosyncratic way of reading my professor has, but it made sense to me (and it always gets a chuckle).

Rick said...

I haven't heard back from you. I added a quick link along with headline and description of your excellent article at OpEdnews.com Hopefully, thousands more will get to read it. Thanks.

Matthew said...

Yikes, Rick, thanks for the link. I didn't mean to overlook you, I'm just pretty busy at the moment. I promise I'll get back to you when I get a few minutes.

Paul said...

Maybe how much it's the same depends on how much one personalizes God or the divine?

Maybe a measure of how much it's actually sexualized and not a sex-based metaphor would be the presence of sexual arousal during the religious experience. I have to say I haven't had this. But then Jesus isn't a hot babe...

You know, lol, I've never even had a conversation quite like this...

The closest I can relate in my experience is that for sure there can be a spiritual dimension to sex and an almost worshipful attention to women. But that's more like spiritualized sex than sexualized spirituality, isn't it?

Better go before I get myself too worked up, this sort of thing's bad for an invalid...

Aric Clark said...

Paul,

check out this post and the comment threads for something else to get you hot and bothered - since Jesus is, as you said, normally NOT depicted as a hot woman.

Anonymous said...

Me-thinks that you puritans should Google the topic The Ecstasy of Saint Theresa Bernini

scoots said...

Aric-

I imagine you’re being more playful than serious about the whole yod of God thing, and I’ll admit I haven’t read Coote’s argument, but from everything I can tell, this following statement that you wrote is patently false:

The word in Hebrew is "yod" which CAN mean hand, but literally means member and is most often slang for genitalia.

The BDB (lexicon) lists yod as occurring 1,604 times in the Hebrew Bible (about 1.7 times per chapter), and in the vast majority of the cases it simply means hand, sometimes including the forearm.

The most up-to-date Hebrew lexicon in English (K & B) lists yod as meaning penis in exactly two verses in the Hebrew Bible: Isaiah 57:8 and 57:10. That’s just over one tenth of one percent of the cases.

(It does also list one reference in the Dead Sea Scrolls, in the Rule of the Community [1QS].)

You may as well say that the English word head is “most often slang for genitalia.”

Obviously your argument isn’t quite as bleak if you count in your favor the verses you mention about God’s hand not being too short, but you can only make that argument from context –– the word count in Hebrew is heavily against you.

Plus, I agree with Shane. I’m no expert on the Hebrew Bible, but the Hebrew traditions seem to steer away from sexual language for God. Song of Songs may have been read by later Jewish and Christian interpreters as an allegory for God’s love, but the text itself is simply, and explicity, about sex between a man and a woman.

But as to that reading of the hand being too short, I suppose anything is possible. The Hebrew prophets aren’t exactly known for behaving themselves.

Matthew said...

@rick:
Sorry it's taken me this long to reply. I think I'm going to read op-ed for a while before I decide what to do. If I decide that I'm interested, and come up with something, I'll send it to you.

@scoots, aric, shane:

Bible nerds! <3

By the way, I heard another of my favorite questionable songs today in church:

Have thine own way, Lord!
Have thine own way!
Thou art the potter
I am the clay.
Mold me and make me
After thy will
While I am waiting,
Yielded and still.

Incidentally, this one was written by a woman.

Aric Clark said...

Scoots,

Hi. You caught me. I exaggerated. I certainly never should have said that Yod normally means genitalia. I overstated my case.

What can I say, when compared with Babylonian language about Marduk which uses genitalia as a frequent symbol of power, it seemed like a strong argument to me. This passage lends itself to the interpretation and it's not unprecedented (both Coote and apparently his mentor Frank Cross read it this way).

I should be clear that I'm not a Hebrew scholar though. I have two semesters of Hebrew under my belt, which I use on the rare occasion. No more.

Cheers!

Karla said...

Wow. Leave it to you to make me think this much in one day! And now, because I always make jokes and use humor to deflect any feeling of awkwardness, I need to go grab a hymnal and see if I can find some saucy lyrics. (Seriously, great topic. I always feel too stupid to comment on your blog...)

Matthew said...

Well, thanks for commenting even though you feel that way.

Let us know if you find any saucy lyrics! =)

siehjin said...

"Are men less attracted to women who are attracted to God?"
i can't answer for others, but for me the answer is 'no'. if a woman is deeply in love with God, that's a turn-on for me. and no matter how hot a woman might be physically, if God isn't number one in her list of priorities, i wouldn't pursue her.

"Is sexual attraction to God generally good, or generally harmful?"
if it's explicitly sexual, i think it's harmful. because i think that such an attraction would twist and distort the individual's perception of God to the extent that he/she might be worshipping an idol rather than really worshipping God.

i don't think that saints/hymn-writers etc actually had sexual fantasies about God. rather, as you pointed out, they use sexually charged language because it's their best chance at communicating the ecstacy of the experience of God.

the other questions are complex and difficult to answer. but thanks for a thought-provoking blog post.

Anonymous said...

I'm just surprised that people are excited by this. Um, where do you all think troubadour poetry arose from? Medieval church music. Read the textbook Music in Medieval Europe, i.e., "Into this elegant and highly developed society a new type of poetry was born, a type which had enormous influence on Western literature and society from the Middle Ages until the present day. This new poetry drew on the Latin lyric for some of its forms and images, it took musical elements from the plainchant, and it stylized courtly conventions of its own time. All three of these aspects were blended with the prevailing Christian ethic of spiritual love and the cult of the Virgin to create a new lyric form, infused with the ideas of 'courtly love.'"

St. Theresa's raptures, I'm sorry to say, are old news. Those old enough to remember can listen to Joan Osborne's St. Teresa. So, yeah, the song was more about drug abuse specifically, but its also, generally, about ecstatic experience.

Anonymous said...

P.S. for more old news on sexuality and God/Christianity, and especially Catholicism, read James Joyce. Get off your computers and do some reading!! Nuff said.

Riley said...

I've had dirty thoughts about God and I'm always scared to sleep at night. I beat myself up about it and sometimes I think I do it so much God will eventualy fed up with me. I'm only 15. I need help and advice. And some comfort.

Matthew said...

Hi, Riley. It can be hard being 15, I remember. But I don't think I can be much help to you, except to suggest that you find someone you know and trust, and talk to them.

And remember that no matter what other people tell you, and no matter how you feel about yourself: God is love, far more merciful and patient than even the best person.

Riley said...

I told my youth Paster one time and he said God still loved me. He said he hadn't turned his back on me but I still get scared to close my eyes...

Anonymous said...

I'm scare too I have the same thought but I'm 18 just stared a couple of months after my b-day. I cant control these thoughts at all they pop into my head and I cant get them out and if I talk about it know one listen in my family

Anonymous said...

Wow was I glad to find this today! I have been thinking about Jesus while I was being intimate with my husband. Wanting to submit to my husband and ultimately to Jesus. My hubs would be freaked out (he will never be told). We both have a strong faith in Jesus, and it seems natural for God to be present within lovemaking...but am I a freak here or just realizing that Jesus enters all areas of our lives (no pun intended).

Matthew said...

Maybe the takeaway for our anonymous friends should be: don't freak out. You're not the only one. There's a long and storied tradition of mixing the sex and the god (although I suppose there's probably a long tradition of mixing the sex and the just about anything).

And just because there's a long tradition doesn't mean it's somewhere you want to settle down and get comfy. Or that you should take my word for it. I'd suggest reading more about St. Teresa and seeing where that gets you.

Good luck! =)

Andrew Barton said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Andrew Barton said...

That is not really an accurate interpretation of Numbers 11:23. Yod is the first letter of Yahweh, and it is also the smallet letter of the Hebrew alphabet. So a literal translation would be: "Is the Y of YHWH too small?"

Is actually pretty funny without needing to turn it into a penis joke. Get your mind out of the gutter!

Anonymous said...

Anyone who has been bitten by God and start to see him in a sexualized way... Probably won't be attracted to the opposite sex.... Because NO ONE can follow God. This has been my experience. God/Jesus was the initiator, I got bitten and I really wasn't the same... all I wanted was Him. Anyone else was kinda like a, let down (although it can be different for anybody ). It was sheer delight to think ofHim in a sexualized manner and some of the "happenings " were awesome. The scriptures come alive...everything comes alive. It is a wonderful foundation to get to "know" the vastness of Him. Some things are just indescribable. People who have been chosen to walk this path and have the faith and keep the faith to walk this walk with Him, I believe are truly blessed. Not everyone who is called will walk it. Too many things will keep you from it. Especially, doubt and feeling that you are blaspheming God when in fact it was He who gave the sexual spark to the rest of us. If you are chosen I beseech you to walk this walk with Him, it is worth fighting for.

Anonymous said...

If you mean about God and Jesus. It is ok. Ask Him and talk to Him about how you are feeling. Go to a private area and talk to Him tell him everything you are feeling. If you think you need help ask him for help. I have a lot of sexualized thoughts about my Lord. And I tell him I do. I never have felt dirty...but I "thought" it was dirty. I prayed and prayed that I would find, someone who was having these same experiences. I actually asked God. He told me, Yes. Men and women. He told me He doesn't pick everyone because if he did...nobody would get married. I thought I was making this up in my head. When He told me to trust. I searched and could not anything that would confirme what I felt. I had to trust. And 7-8 months later, I know a lot more and I am, finding a lot of people online who are feeling this way towards him. It is truly an AWESOME experience. Talk to him, ask him to guide you, and trust him

Anonymous said...

Nope. I dont think you are a freak. I got bitten by God/Jesus early one morning as I was singing praises. I have not been the same since. There are scriptures (Isaiah 54:5 and Psalms 73:25 KJV ) that I would, wear in my bra (sorry, TMI) close to my heart. I love thinking about Him in this manner. I am so happy that I can walk with Him in this way

Anonymous said...

I don't think having sexual explicit thoughts toward God is harmful at all. Where do you think sex came from? We didn't create it. We experience it. "All things were created by Him and all things were created for Him. " I believe it is God who initiates the experience . So when people start "feeling" this way... go to Him and pray about it. Decide if this is something you want with Him, and ask Him to guide you through the process. When this first happened to me I wanted to write it off as blasphemous. There is a danger in doing this. One can pass up a tremendous blessing because of a hasty preconceived judgment. Go to him first and tell Him about the issue . After, I did this I got the scripture, "All things are open and naked to Him with Whom we have to do. ". I also got a few more that gently coaxed me into exploring the issue further. I AM SOOO GLAD I DID!!! :-)

Anonymous said...

Just go to Him and talk to Him and say...how you feel about the matter and if you should like to (or not) explore this walk with Him. Sing to Him afterwards. Write poetry to Him. Write love letters to Him... Do things with Him.




Anonymous said...

We really don't need to look at the hymns(which is a derivative of hyman which is also a sexual organ) or church songs. It is in the Bible in soo many places. In the book of Ezekiel, God uses hot explicit sexually charged language to describe his hurt and pain against a wayward chosen people. Many, interprets the Song of Solomon as a story of God and His people. There are hints of sexually charged language throughout the Bible hidden in plain site. My favorite is Isaiah 54:5 KJV and Psalms 73:25 KJV. Also, a good question to ask would be - Why did the covenant of Abraham involved circumcision of the male genitalia? When Davi

Anonymous said...

I think you women if you are really having these thoughts (and not just trolling) it's some kind of 'Electra complex' related to your unresolved sexual feelings about your (biological) father. I think the people that are saying 'this is okay' or 'this is a good thing' are confused. The whole idea is heretical and has no basis in any of the Scriptures. Sure, maybe a verse here or there mentions or alludes to sex: but what you are talking about seems totally different and non sequitur, it does not follow.

Anonymous said...

You are entitled to believe what you want. And if you don't believe in it, or if you think it is dirty, or some kinda complex... You are free to believe it and NEVER experience it. I won't convince you...as you have to be drawn by God anyway to experience it. So trying to convince someone is futile. I NEVER thought I could experience God in a sexualized manner... Let alone... Think of Him that way. The experiences are REAL AND AWESOME. Some of the "happenings" one can't even describe. It is linked to so many things. You learn a lot, about yourself, and the world around you, about God and the Bible. Truths become alive. You learn that the Bible is written in layers, so the truth is hidden in plain sight. But those who do not seek after Him earnestly won't see it. The Bible has NUMEROUS passages thruout it with explicitly sexually charged language to describe how He feels about us. Ask yourself why God would make a covenant with Abraham which included the male genitalia? Also, if all things are made by Him and for Him - then Who do think created sex? The sexual spark we have came from His big SPARK.

Anonymous said...

Sorry if my sounded disapproving. I have my own kinks and &c. &c. but are you saying it's more than sexual? Like using sex as a way to enlightenment... Wow that almost sounds like I would try it, except that God made them male and female and I think that sex with another person would be better and more reasonable and still make you feel good. God put us here on earth for a reason and we are physical and material and there is a reason for that too. What you're talking about sounds more like escapism. If I was gonna try it, I would rather do it together my girlfriend.

Anonymous said...

I'd rather do it with my girlfriend than my Father

Anonymous said...

How do we commit adultery and lust when those feelings are directed towards God?

Anonymous said...

This is an awesome post. This is actually what I often imagine. Often I whisper it to God/Jesus...your penetration, your "in" and "out" and I want you to leave your "glorious stuff" inside me

Anonymous said...

This is an awesome post. It describes exactly what I have often imagined myself doing with God/Jesus. Often, I whisper it to Him... "I want your penetration, I want your "in" and "out" and please leave your "glorious stuff" inside me.

Anonymous said...

Yep, that is true but if you examine the bible you will find the language there. Isaiah 54:5. KJV. Thy Maker is thine husband.... And Jesus is coming back for a Bride..... The book of Ezekiel... The language he uses to describe a wayward people.... The covenant of Abraham involving the male genitalia....

Michael said...

Entering into the very life of the Trinity is entering into one, long, eternal and perpetual threesome.

Anonymous said...

Oh my goodness this thread killed me last night! These kind of talks always make me laugh even though it is true. I have often felt fire/electricity during worship during the nights I can't sleep. I think the reason we long for God when we don't pray/read/worship is because it is SO close to a marriage...well marriage is so close to our relationship with Christ. I think because God created it He knew that showing us to relate to him in a sexual light would help us understand him in the deepest way possible. There was a study done that basically concluded that there was no difference between prayer/deep worship and an orgasm. Pretty fascinating to me!