tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post281378449636778187..comments2023-09-08T03:25:12.539-05:00Comments on Liberal Jesus: "Live Blogging" was a bit ambitiousMatthewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17980181582122445265noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post-53913436890080633022008-03-26T12:49:00.000-05:002008-03-26T12:49:00.000-05:00"Secondly, I prefer a salvation that begins now ra..."Secondly, I prefer a salvation that begins now rather than later and one for which I am at least partially responsible." (Cody)<BR/><BR/>Same here - I am a huge fan of living a salvific life in the here and now. Logically, it makes sense. Why is salvation always something for the 'hereafter' when none of us have even seen that place nor can do nothing to change that place? However, we do know what we can do here for others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post-86445597257308210072008-03-26T12:45:00.000-05:002008-03-26T12:45:00.000-05:00There were 6 points - I agree with them all! I thi...There were 6 points - I agree with them all! I think I have a dis-satisfaction with church and structure - but not with faith and the meaning of the teachings. I also do not like neatly formed doctrine for upholding structure's sake - doctrine was made for us, not us for doctrine. All around great points!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post-58829805547482445752008-03-26T08:08:00.000-05:002008-03-26T08:08:00.000-05:00Oh yeah, I forgot to mention Jesus. Bummer.Oh yeah, I forgot to mention Jesus. Bummer.Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17980181582122445265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post-8978203786119302482008-03-26T00:06:00.000-05:002008-03-26T00:06:00.000-05:00"Cody, you wouldn't happen to have a brother who s..."Cody, you wouldn't happen to have a brother who shares a name that starts like mine and yours?"<BR/><BR/>Yep. Do I know you? Or do you just know my bro?<BR/><BR/>@Matt<BR/>I heartily agree with your feelings on Liberal,KS. I do not plan to spend another night there. Even though Jesus (the motel manager, not THE LORD) was really nice.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14752140643761133078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post-14657059290069898442008-03-25T22:16:00.000-05:002008-03-25T22:16:00.000-05:00From Cody:"And I would guess that most everyone wo...From Cody:<BR/><BR/>"And I would guess that most everyone would agree on big issues: Killing, Opression, Greed = Generally Bad, Compassion, Love, Mercy = Generally Good, those sorts of things."<BR/><BR/>I agree with you on that, but these views are thrown out the window for an hour in Sunday School classes every week. Which is why I think the statement about knowing what is 'good' is so profound yet obvious.<BR/><BR/>Cody, you wouldn't happen to have a brother who shares a name that starts like mine and yours?Mr. Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04266437585026544459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post-48980958148599169642008-03-25T15:30:00.000-05:002008-03-25T15:30:00.000-05:00"The reality seems a little more complex than "hum..."The reality seems a little more complex than "human beings are evil to the core", and the source of our salvation a little more elusive than magic Jesus dust."<BR/><BR/>Agreed. I would also like to think that our salvation is a little more complex than going to heaven when we die. First, I don't really buy the Christian idea of Heaven as eternal devo. Secondly, I prefer a salvation that begins now rather than later and one for which I am at least partially responsible.<BR/><BR/>"God is good and we know what good is." It is funny, emoticon worthy even. But it is important. From where does our definition of good come? We know it when we see it (like porn)? Is it embedded in our DNA? Is it an image of God within us? <BR/><BR/>I ask because I think most people would agree that they pretty well know what they mean when they say good. And I would guess that most everyone would agree on big issues: Killing, Opression, Greed = Generally Bad, Compassion, Love, Mercy = Generally Good, those sorts of things. <BR/><BR/>Too much commenting, sorry to dominate. I guess I have unanswered questions despite the REBA conference. At least I'm not commenting on really old posts (yet).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14752140643761133078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post-84711521481494165802008-03-25T14:00:00.000-05:002008-03-25T14:00:00.000-05:00"God is good""and we know pretty well what we mean..."God is good"<BR/><BR/>"and we know pretty well what we mean when we say 'good'."<BR/><BR/><BR/>I just love that. :)Mr. Parkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04266437585026544459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post-64535142574048472892008-03-25T13:08:00.000-05:002008-03-25T13:08:00.000-05:00I think I'd say that there is a lot of nastiness i...I think I'd say that there is a lot of nastiness in the human condition, originating both inside the human animal (things people do that hurt other people) and being imposed from external sources (nature, harmful systems). In those senses, I think we are in need of salvation.<BR/><BR/>But I disagree with people who say that humans are essentially ugly and violent beings simply whitewashed with a veneer of civility, as well as those who stack onto this belief the assertion that only magic Jesus dust can transform the essentially violent human being into a free, noble and benign spirit.<BR/><BR/>The reality seems a little more complex than "human beings are evil to the core", and the source of our salvation a little more elusive than magic Jesus dust.<BR/><BR/>Does that answer your question?Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17980181582122445265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post-22128763388240972012008-03-25T12:42:00.000-05:002008-03-25T12:42:00.000-05:00I think I can agree with you. I guess my idea of ...I think I can agree with you. I guess my idea of personal and interactivity aren't well defined. <BR/><BR/>A pull toward goodness is interactivity enough for me. <BR/><BR/>I do have this high anthropology. I don't recall a discussion about that. I think mainly because we all have a low Christology and that, in my experience, leads to high anthropology. <BR/><BR/>What say you about the human condition? Is there a need for salvation? If so, are we in need of atonement or deliverance from outside ourselves?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14752140643761133078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post-58812686121163780472008-03-25T09:38:00.000-05:002008-03-25T09:38:00.000-05:00Thanks. I agree about number 6.I'm not convinced t...Thanks. I agree about number 6.<BR/><BR/>I'm not convinced that God is a personal God, though, or that God interacts with humanity in a personal God sort of way. I think I mostly sat out of that part of the discussion, but I feel like the problem of evil is just too heavy to make it easy to use metaphors that emphasize God's personality or interaction. Instead, I would be inclined toward metaphors that emphasize God's doing and being ... I'm inclined toward God being a pattern or pull toward goodness in the Universe, or toward God being a verb rather than a noun.<BR/><BR/>Basically, I'm open to lots of metaphors that people use to describe their experiences of God, but I get uneasy with Personality and Interactivity because (based on the problem of evil) they come a little too close to making God evil, which is contrary to my fundamental belief in God's goodness.Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17980181582122445265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post-44195794296962874242008-03-25T00:03:00.000-05:002008-03-25T00:03:00.000-05:00I've been eagerly awaiting this post. I really li...I've been eagerly awaiting this post. I really liked the summary. I also really liked that there were no life-changing conclusions that came out of the weekend. It just wouldn't fit would it? <BR/><BR/>I have to say that number 6 is probably the most important. There will be no learning, growing or discussion if someone does not agree on number 6. Everything else is up for debate/discussion. <BR/><BR/>One thing that either I missed, or you missed is that God is a personal God. Not the anthropomorphic God of the Hebrew Bible, but a being or sorts that is aware of itself, and not merely the Spirit of Goodness or some such thing. I think we would also all agree that God in some ways interacts with humanity, otherwise there is no reason to discuss or even think about God. <BR/><BR/>Thanks again for the hotwater cornbread. I think of it fondly.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14752140643761133078noreply@blogger.com