tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post112299102934571566..comments2023-09-08T03:25:12.539-05:00Comments on Liberal Jesus: Things That Suck (Post 3)Matthewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17980181582122445265noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post-1123102610608235622005-08-03T15:56:00.000-05:002005-08-03T15:56:00.000-05:00Matthew, I've been thinking about this subject qui...Matthew, I've been thinking about this subject quite a bit myself lately - and the more I think, the more complicated it looks!<BR/><BR/>As just one example, Irina talks about forgiving those who repent. In my experience, the couple of times in my life someone wronged me but then sincerely apologized, then altered their behavior - my feelings changed in an instant! Was that really an "act of forgiveness?" I just couldn't be angry at them anymore. They had changed.<BR/><BR/>For sure your sister writes great letters. She says absolutely nothing by way of insult, points to the wrongdoing, and invites them to apologize! Maybe forgiveness = really putting somebody on the spot!Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14770384445526387065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post-1123000931597440882005-08-02T11:42:00.000-05:002005-08-02T11:42:00.000-05:00Good comments, Emilyjane.Why should you stay angry...Good comments, Emilyjane.<BR/><BR/><I>Why should you stay angry?</I><BR/><BR/>In this situation - where the harm done to me isn't so great - I suspect that it's not really a question of "staying angry". I was much angrier six months ago than I am now, and I expect my anger to continue to diminish over time. But most of my commenters seem to suggest that forgiveness is something more active than allowing your anger to subside. It's this "more active" part that I want people to explain, and that I'm questioning the value of.<BR/><BR/><I>And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.</I><BR/><BR/>A good point. But this sounds to me like forgiveness is the way of <I>people</I>, and the Lord's Prayer is begging God to be forgiving in the same way that we are forgiving.<BR/><BR/><I>Corrie realized she could not forgive the man, but she knew God could</I><BR/><BR/>See, I'm not sure this is correct. God can forgive wrongs insofar as they are done against God, but can God really forgive wrongs done by a person to another person? It seems to me that God helped Corrie forgive the man, but God did not forgive the man for her.Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17980181582122445265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11807447.post-1122999314573292672005-08-02T11:15:00.000-05:002005-08-02T11:15:00.000-05:00I would turn the questions around, Matt, and ask: ...I would turn the questions around, Matt, and ask: Why shouldn't you forgive? Why should you stay angry? What would you hope to accomplish by that? What feelings, if any, are beneath the anger? How are you dealing with those emotions?<BR/><BR/>What makes me think that forgiveness is the way of God is this line from the Lord's prayer: "And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us."<BR/><BR/>I am in awe of people who can forgive thoroughly and completely. A few years ago I saw a show about two couples who had lost a child to murder. The one couple hated the murderer--all the way up to and including his execution, which they attended. The other couple slowly began to develop a relationship with the murderer. First, they wrote to him, then they began visiting him. In the end they not only forgave the murderer but came to love him and were instrumental in changing his life (much like the Pope who forgave the man who shot him). <BR/><BR/>What especially struck me at the end of the program was the difference between the two couples. The nonforgivers were very sickly, could barely walk and were filled with hatred even after the murderer had been killed. The forgivers were filled with joy and peace and were an inspiration to many, including myself. <BR/><BR/>Now in the case of the forgiven murderer, he admitted his wrong doing and asked for forgiveness. It is always more difficult to forgive someone who won't admit to a fault and doesn't repent. (I believe we are asked to forgive these people as well but that doesn't mean we have to allow ourselves to be hurt by them again.) <BR/><BR/>I'm still learning how to forgive, but two things help me when forgiveness is required. First, I remember something Jack Kornfield wrote in "A Path with Heart." He said the first step toward forgiveness is the desire to forgive. He suggests saying, "I am willing to forgive." Or even, "I am willing to want to forgive." I usually can't get to this point until after I have felt and expressed my feelings. Sometimes I do this by writing in my journal and talking to friends. If the circumstances permit (which they often do not), I speak to the person who has hurt me directly. When direct communication is not possible or wise, I talk to their souls (usually by writing letters in my journal which I will never send). <BR/><BR/>I haven't needed to use this last option yet, but I keep in my heart in case the unforgivable happens to me. In one of her books, Catherine Marshall tells the story of Holocaust survivor Corrie ten Boom. After the war (during which she had been imprisoned and her sister had been killed), Corrie went around Germany giving talks on God's forgiveness and loving your enemies. At the end of one of her lectures, a former Nazi officer, who had been one of her captors in the concentration camp, came up to her. He said mockingly, "Oh, fraulein, it is so good to know all has been forgiven." <BR/><BR/>At the moment, Corrie realized she could not forgive the man, but she knew God could, so she prayed: "Lord, I can't do this. Give me Your forgiveness." <BR/><BR/>Suddenly, she felt an overwhelming sense of peace and love fill her heart. With that Corrie stuck out her hand and genuinely greeted the man who had once imprisoned and raped her.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com